This is part 5 in a series of filmmaking discussions on audio post-production for the open source SciFi movie Jathai’s Wager.

I think the wind cold scene could work well, especially if it’s only added to the “before the portal scenes” or the “after portal scenes” to add even more of a “difference” and emphasis to the portal itself.  If you added it to the before scenes you could potentially have it “flair” up and overlap the sound, maybe at one of the points where the dialogue cuts out anyways??  What do you think?  If you added it to the second half (after they travel through the portal) that would add an even colder, darker feel to where Jathia ends up.  Maybe try it on both parts and see which one works better??

I just re-listened to the cantina scene from Star Wars.  I like the idea of the warbly ‘internal voice’, but I’ll have to hear it to know for sure, I personally like the medium pitched with high tones interspersed (the low growling voices seemed too animalistic, but the medium - high “organic” voices would be great).

I’ll definitely keep everyone up to date on the process of the movie, I’m very excited about casting and will be scheduling both rehearsals and shooting dates directly afterwards.  After we shoot each scene I’ll rush to edit it, put the effects in and put then it online so we can do the post production and audio right away (we won’t have to wait until the entire film is shot - like how we’re doing the prequel trailer before the main film has even been casted).  This will enable us to have a much faster release date.

Also I’m trying to share the  movie making process with my audience, can I publish these e-mails on my site? (I’ll remove your e-mail address and/or name if you want to retain privacy, that is up to you.)

Solomon

We have no problem with you putting up emails, and as we have the email address on our website anyway, not much point taking it away!  As for each scene coming through, no problem either, the only time problems can come up is when a scene is re-edited,  but if it has to be done, it has to be done.  So yes, section by section!

Although, once all scenes are done and we review start to finish,  there may be call for some touching up or re-balancing levels,  so that every scene is consistent - I imagine we wont be working on them in order.   Anyhow, that wont be a problem as it will be 95% ready at that point.  The cantina ‘voices’ were just an approximation,

I cant really explain what I was thinking about, will just have to show you when i find it!  The ‘cold barren wind’ sound definitely would work for the post-portal moments.

We will look into that.

Ami

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This is part 4 in a series of filmmaking discussions on audio post-production for the open source SciFi movie Jathai’s Wager.

Ok, I watched and listened to it a bunch of times, gave it a few days, watched it again and here is my feedback. Regarding dialogue replacement, when we start filming the complete movie I’ll be sure to test and re-test our sound to ensure no cut offs.

We wrote, shot, and put together the prequel on an extremely short timeline to get our team working together so I could adequately prepare and solve challenges that will arise in the regular film shoot.  I could definitely record synced audio for the parts where Jathia is cut off, Not sure about getting the actress to come in again (can try). I have recording abilities here.  Would having the actors watch the clip and then say the line in “time” with the video work?  For this trailer I think the short cuts outs are ok, but I’ll make absolutely sure to triple check the audio for the next shoot.

I like the deep base and the alarm sound in the beginning.  I think the deep base rumble could be even more pronounced, but I would keep the the alarm type sound the same - it’s perfect.

I LOVE the sound for the eye, especially the part where it warps the voice of Ashira as she talks, definitely leave that in - you “nailed it” - that’s the exact emotional effect I wanted.  The volume on the dialogue sections is a little loud, but you mentioned that in your e-mail so I assume it will be fixed in the final mix.  I also added one change the video, but it doesn’t affect the time or scenes in any way.  I simply added a longer fade from white when it transitions  to the closeup of Jathia after the portal, like I said it is a video change only, no effect on time or scenes at all.

I think the scene where Ashira and then Jathia runs though the portal should have a little more emphasis on the sound effects and I think the music should be a little more subtle.  Also the feeling of confusion in the close-up scene with Jathia is good, but I think it should be “more”.  I want to feel more confusion.  Maybe add some additional sounds on top of the sound effects and music that’s already there.  Maybe have a “sub melody” start when they’re running through the portal and be “on top” of the bass music that plays throughout.  I’m not sure, I’m open to suggestions, but the main thing is that I want the sound to relay a more “confused” feel for Jathia.  In that shot he just finished running after Ashira -  he’s transported to another area and he doesn’t know exactly what happened or where she is.  I want to “feel” that more.

The long “hanging” sounds at the end are great, in the black space I’ll probably have a text message announcing that Jathia’s Wager will be released online and give the website address.

I know I was a little late in sending this feedback to you.  If you need a few more days after the deadline, that’s cool, although if we can still do November 9, that would be awesome so I could show all the actors, actresses, and technical people the prequel trailer and they could get a hint at what the finished film will look like.

Solomon

Hi Solomon,

Really glad you like the general direction of it, and its great for us to get your feedback as the overseeing director, so we can improve…

We will try to tweak this as requested in the next day or two..  I was thinking about adding a sort of warbly ‘internal’ voice to the redeye, sort of a robotic and organic murmer that only the camera hears.

Maybe a bit like one of those aliens from the cantina scene in starwars 4…  BTW what would you say to a windy cold scene?

We are still thinking that it could enhance things in this future environment.

Anyway, stay in touch and let us know what happens with the casting!

Good luck!!!

Ami

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This is one part in a series of filmmaking discussions on audio post-production for the open source SciFi movie Jathai’s Wager.

Solomon
Thanks for the email. I watched it and am working on your specs. I think the best way to go about this will be to give you a few different files that you (or Ami at your direction ) can mix together so if they are in fact happening at the wrong times it can more easily be changed. Your notes are clear and I will work in it today.

Cheers
Jonas

Hi,

I can’t wait to hear the different sound tracks.  I animated the open source films logo, this will run directly before the prequel and the main film.  It’s located here:

http://www.myotherdrive.com/file/229.374910.11102008.98042.6a64fi/open-source-films.m2v Update November 07, 2008 - This link is ancient and is not worth downloading, it’s provided for reference, we’ll release a finished version of the trailer this week, unless you want to mess around with the source files I’d recommend waiting until we release the finished version so you don’t spoil it for yourself.

I imagine it sounding like glass shattering, but much lower pitched and then a sound that symbolizes things coming back together and finally a long standing single note at the very end.  What do you think?

Mininova a large bittorent site has agreed to sponsor and distribute our files free of charge, so we get unlimited space, unlimited seeding and bittorent distribution for all our files.  I was very excited about this!!!!  For now I’ll still put small files on myotherdrive, but all of our large public distributions will be on mininova, as well as the multitude of video sharing sites.

I’ve posted a casting call for the main film and am moving forward full speed ahead.   See http://moviepals.org/blog/casting-call-for-jathias-wager-%e2%80%93-ground-breaking-open-source-collaborative-film/ I’m going to work on a few more special effects and finishing touches for the prequel rough cut, but the timing of the scenes should remain virtually the same.  I’ll send that footage as soon as it’s finished.

Thank you again for all your help, this is very exciting.  If you want an advertisement or formal recognition on the website or in the finished video distributions just let me know.  Our audience level is probably going to be in the millions and I could plugg your commercial services if you’re looking for that.

Thanks,

Solomon Rothman

Hi Soloman,

I meant to write sooner but work and (more) work have delayed me, so apologies!

Jonas has told me all about the project, which my colleague (and friend) Danny and I are both interested in working on.

We run under the name amberaudio production, often working with Jonas (aka dopplegang).

We are based in London, and have been freelancing from our new private studio for the past year.

We both love to produce music for film and other applications, and are very interested in doing the sound design and mix for Janthias Wager.

As Jonas is in London he can bring his music to our studio for mixing to picture, which simplifies the soundtrack production process for us all.

Our recent work includes short animations, films, and website sound effects.

We are meeting tomorrow to review the link from your last email.

We have just signed up amberaudio on the meetup group as Jonas recommended.

So our plan for tomorrow is to download the clip, find a suitable SFX / foley theme, and get something back to you asap!

Im not sure how much you know about audio post-production, but we would attack the project properly once a final edit has been rendered, as the timeline is critical to our work.

Jonas appears to have some great music sofar; so once we have an edit in hand, we can dub / mix his music to the cut.

To speed things up we could of course work on individual scenes, but preferably the final edits (otherwise there will be a large amount of extra work moving samples and automation around if changes are made to the timeline!)…

Anyhow, we are excited about this new approach to production, and will get a rough audio mix to you asap including some of Jonas’s music if possible.

All the best,

Ami.

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One of my goals with moviepals.org is to create a community of movie lovers and filmmakers that provide not only fun to read and interesting blog posts, but also provide a window into my filmmaking endeavors.  I hope that independent, amateur, students and even inspiring filmmakers can learn something from my movie making experiences.  By creating collaborative films we’re breaking new ground and hopefully making a least a small tiny dent in filmmaking history (I know overly dramatic, but hey I’m a filmmaker )

We’re about to release a prequel trailer for the open source SciFi movie Jathia’s Wager and I’ve been in back and forth communication with amber audio, an audio post production team which specializes in sound design and composition for films.  The following is some of the back and forth correspondence I’ve had with them over the last 3 weeks in preparation for the prequel trailer.  I wanted to publish it, because I think it will be of interest to my audience to see how all the parts of this filmmaking project are coming together.

This entire discussion started out when I posted some specifics online of what I was looking for in an audio post production team for this film.  You can see that post here.  I received a response and started communicating with Dopplegang who is working in partnership with amber audio.

A joy to hear from you. Your specifics sound very doable and quite
understandable, but any questions we will ask if needed. We hope first off that there is a contract we can see, though I know you may have  mentioned something to this effect, and we know it’s open source. Just  run it by us again. Running through at this moment, will watch this scene tonight!

We shall have a demo score for the scene very soon, as close to the
real time of the scene as possible.

Excited
Dopplegang

Here is a link to the rough cut of the teaser trailer / prequel - assembled
with some effects.  It still needs a few more effects (like when Jathia and
Ashira disappear into a ball of light), but the main cut of the scenes are
complete.

http://www.myotherdrive.com/file/448.301621.07102008.21738.6a64fi/rough-cut-
trailer.mpg Update November 07, 2008 - This link is ancient and is not worth downloading, it’s provided for reference, we’ll release a finished version of the trailer this week, unless you want to mess around with the source files I’d recommend waiting until we release the finished version so you don’t spoil it for yourself.

Notes on the audio:
Notice the red eye, if you can add sound effects to add robotic life to this
eye, that would work to set the mood.  The dissonance in the first sound
clip is good.  Regarding the first audio clip you sent me, the dissonance is
good, but a little too harsh.   I’m thinking maybe it starts with more of a
subtle melody that turns into more dissonance in the climatic points in the
video.

For the melody, I’m thinking some epic strings with an interesting mix or
actually a very direct “invasion” of mechanical, artificial sound (think
video-game-ish) with a strong bass beat, that then turns into dissonance at
climatic points in the trailer.  What do you think?

I scheduled  some conference calls through the meetup and we went over the
audio with feedback.  I’m going to invite you to the next one when we do
that so you can get live feedback on your work.  I’m still waiting for you
to join the meetup and respond with the credits / credentials you’d like to
present on this film.  I’ll be available 24/7 from now on.

Solomon Rothman

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You just banged out 120 pages of script. It’s the best thing you’ve ever come up with. You’re so stuck on how well you did, that you don’t want to change a word. Well if that’s you then prepare for your script to collect dust. You need to be open to criticism if you want a winning script. Did you ever approach a problem where one person saw the problem differently than you? You couldn’t figure it out, but they came in a solved it right away. Well it’s the same thing when writing. I know we’re all secretive when it comes to our scripts. We don’t want to get our idea stolen, so we usually only have one person editing our scripts, ourselves. I love the idea of having writing teams. You might not be good at writing fighting scenes, where’s your co-writer may be better at it. You might not be able to see character inconsistencies, whereas you partner may catch something. That brings us to the purpose of this article?

Here’s a few things you need to ask when editing your screenplay.

Does my character have a voice??? Is he/she/it unique and distinguishable from the rest of the characters? Does he/she/it resonate and have a powerful role in the movie, or is the character a robot that sounds like an automated bank teller service? Reread your script and make sure your writing doesn’t sound like “Press 1 for English.” “I’m sorry, zero, is not an option.”

Would my character say that??? Think about your character and imagine what he or she would say in any given situation. Imagine your character as alive and as a real person. You need to know where he/she/it is coming from so you can write accordingly. If you character is, say, a computer driven information hologram, he would not be saying things like “People are just not fit to help themselves.” He would have no opinion as all as to what people can or can’t do.

Do I care what happens to my character???? If you don’t care what happens to your character, then why should I make your screenplay into a movie. (and were talking main characters here) The single most important thing you need to do in your movie is make the audience care about your character. You can even lead the audience to love him/her/it, or hate him/her/it. Either way, you need an emotional response.

Do all my characters sound the same??? If all your characters sound like they are coming from the same person, you need to go back to school, take a workshop, or pay a script doctor to fix your script. There’s actually a point in Steven King’s “The Mist” where they are in the grocery store and it really sounds like one person. Nobody’s perfect, and you can catch it in some movies on the big screen if you really look hard.

Does my audience know what happens next??? If your character foreshadows everything, the movie will be really dull. If a producer/agent/actor actually reads it, they won’t make it past the first FIVE pages!! That’s saying a lot because people ususallly read ten.

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I’ve heard that some people have their own favorite when it comes to Seth Rogen movies.     My favorite was Knocked Up, where I laughed hysterically thoughout the movie.    Second in line for me was 40 Year old Virgin, then Superbad, then Pineapple Express.    Forgetting Sarah Marshall just plain sucked.    I’ve decided that to really appreciate these movies, you have to be drunk or stoned going in.     It also is very funny if you’re a kid or teenager, and your parents don’t mind you seeing a movie with a bunch of guys smoking marijuana in it.   

Pineapple express was a good movie, but not the best that they’ve come out with.  There were some good parts, and some bad parts.   The dialogue was excellent at times, but the whole time they were acting like they weren’t being serious at all.    The fight scenes were like when you have a play fight with your brother or sister.   It was like “oh my god, your trying to kill me.   Stop that, it’s not cool”.    Those weren’t the exact words, but you get the picture.     One bad guy got shot, and he’s like.   “you shot me man”, and James Franco’s character was like, “ i’m sorry man, i’m so sorry”    Is this what you say to a guy that was going to kill you??    Rosie Perez should have taken a better role.    She plays the cop, but i think she could do much better.    I didn’t think she was believable as a dirty cop.     Also, as in all Seth Rogen movies, they added the gratutious homosexual scene.    There were a lot of male homosexual undertones, and as a heterosexual male, i didn’t care too much for.    It was more like a love connection than two friends getting caught into some crap.    James Franco looked and acted very feminine throughout the movie.    He looked less of a stoner and more of a chick.    Jim Brewer would have been so perfect for that role.   I wonder if he auditioned???     Overall the funny parts outweghed the bad, so i give this movie a C+ satisfactory mark.   

There’s a new one coming out that looks promising, starring Michael Cera.    It looks really good from the preview of it that I saw before Pineapple Express.    I forget the name though.    Despite two of his last movies being almost duds, i’m still excited for the next Seth Rogen movie coming out.    Could he be the next Kevin Smith???    Are his best movies behind him????    Let’s hope not.   And this has nothing to do with the article, but i waited so long for Clerks II and it sucked.     Please comment if you have any thoughts.

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CC License photo credit: Randy Son Of Robert 

Get ready to press the easy button, because this town has it all.    It’s practically a living set.   It has a beach, mountains, a city area, farms, a train, a fishing pier, an old courthouse, and a mission.    With such a wide variety of environments in such a small place, i’m surprised more films aren’t filmed here.   This should be the filming capital of California.   Many films were PARTLY filmed in Ventura.    These films include The Aviator, Little Miss Sunshine, Chinatown, Swordfish, Erin Brockovich, and The Rock.     You can drastically cut your costs by filming here, because you don’t have to travel very far to be in a different enviroment to shoot in.   In fact, i’ll bet you can make a mult-million dollar profit margin, by filming a movie with a $1000 budget and a good cell phone camera.    IN FACT,  I challenge all movie filmmakers, to do so.     I’m going to call this the INDIE MOVIE X PRIZE.    Winner becomes a legendary director and goes on to fame and fortune.    I’m not awarding any prizes though.  Just the fact that you were able to pull this off will get lots of attention.    Money talks and BS walks in this world.   If you show the big shots that you can make tons of money with a $1000 budget, well then it’s one ticket to the good life for you.    So get your cell phone cameras, call some actors and actresses.    Come to town and start shootin!!!   The first person to do it wins.    We can even make up an award and present a trophy, just for fun.

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When watching a movie even without knowing anything about it, I can usually tell right away if the screenplay was written by a woman.    Chick flicks pretty easy to spot.   They are pretty much the same story over and over again.    Here’s how it plays out.     Let’s call the two characters ManX and WomanY.   

THE BEGINNING - ManX begins as one of the following:  a sucessfull business man with lots of girlfriends that can’t settle down, arrogant but a complete douchebag that makes an idiot out of himself, or smalltime righteous guy with a dream to make it big.    

THE MIDDLE - WomanY gets over the initial shock of ManX’s arrogance, doucheness, rigteousness.   They go out to dinner but nobody gets laid yet.   He meets WomanY’s family.   Usually mom or some little kid likes him.    Then they go out on a second date, which is when most ManX’s get laid.  

ENDINGS-  THEY BREAK UP!!!!    It always happens.   If you didn’t know it was coming now you do.    It happens in every single chick flick that i can think of.   

CONCLUSION -  ManX suddenly realizes he’s in love with WomanY or that he can’t live without her.   He RUNS somewhere to find her, sometimes with flowers in hand.    I wanted to stress the running part, because most of the time he runs.   Then it’s the wedding scene.      If you didn’t see this one coming, then i hope your still in the cootie phase of your life.    The other optional ending is a sailboat and a beach with some kind of fruity girly drink in hand.     

A CALL TO ACTION

Ladies, if you want to have your awesome chick flick become more successful, have a man edit, advise and add some things to your sceenplay.     Don’t think i’m a bad guy just yet though.   I think guys should have women edit and advise on their screenplays as well.    My other call to action is, well, how about something that doesn’t follow every other chick movie in existence.

How do they keep making money???   If I wrote, oh say 

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I entered the on the lot filmmaking competition. I didn’t win, but it looks like an interesting competition and there seem to be two different types of entries, people with filmmaking backgrounds that already have the resources to make professional movies and amateurs with absolutely no budget just creativity. It’ll be interesting to see how it all turns out.

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For those of you who don’t know about “On The Lot” yet it’s a reality television show where filmmakers compete in an “American Idol” type competition where 16 filmmakers compete to produce short films each week. The winning filmmaker gets a 1 million dollar directing contract with DreamWorks pictures. It’s being presented by Mark Burnett and Steven Spielberg.

I submitted my entry on the very last day, but it’s up and live on the site. In the beginning of my entry is a 45 second bio where I talk about filmmaking, who I am and introduce my clip; see it at http://films.thelot.com/films/23702. I entered an edited clip from Boy Who Never Slept. I learned about the competition late (maybe I should watch more TV, just kidding), but I’m in the running and the more votes and views my entry receives, the better my chances will be ( it even hints at this in the disclaimers and release statements).

I should state that winning this thing isn’t all important to me and it’s not my goal to be a reality tv star; what’s exciting is that I’m able to enter and that so much attention is being given to amateur filmmakers. I completely support this idea / movement and I’m very happy that this contest even exists.

Distribution sources like Google video, Youtube and bittorrent, among others have created the ability for new filmmakers to get their amateur works seen. I mean look at Boy Who Never Slept, it’s been viewed over a million times, I’ll be posting stats soon and I made enough on advertising dollars that I’ve already purchased new HD equipment.

Filmmaking is now accessible to everyone and I plan on watching and creating a lot more indie movies.

Ideally I would have liked to have produced a new short or movie, but since I just got my new equipment I didn’t have time to film anything new yet, but I will shortly. I’m hoping I get a lot of great support from all my website visitors. Currently the top rated film on that site has less then 500 ratings. This website receives 500 visitors plus daily, so maybe, just maybe, I’ll have a nice run on the site and have a chance at the finals.

I’m definitely going to try and watch the show if I can when it comes out. I think it’ll be really cool and hopefully have some good filmmaking tips and behind the scenes stuff in it. The first rating on there was too kind and that was a nice compliment.

[tags]filmmaking, on the lot, filmmaking competition[/tags]

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